Author Topic: Joker thoughts & Joker thread  (Read 298 times)

Offline PunchingArianaGrande

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • bad baby
    • View Profile
Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« on: October 18, 2019, 08:22:41 am »
Saw it yesterday.
It was decent, 6/10 probably IMO.. Had no expectations going into it and they generally weren't surpassed.
The first two acts I was left pretty cold by, except certain scenes such as the opening one, and the stand up debut one. The final act was pretty good & the talk show scene was easily the best in the movie. So basically all the high octane, high stakes scenes were the best ones, because for most of the rest of it, I didn't get much emotionally. I've seen people online saying how moved they were by it. I saw a comment on YouTube by someone saying they were moved to tears by the dancing scene after
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
. I was just watching that scene. All the camera movements and how purposefully stylish it was completely took me out of it. A lot of the movie was just too stylish to engage with, so, many of the moments that were meant to be "powerful" ended up just looking like blockbuster "shots". And like @franktjmaxx said, it was very unsubtle.
Luckily by the end he had kind of lost his air of being a hero, because up to that point, there was a sense that he wasn't really fighting against the system any more, given that apparently 99% of Gotham residents agreed with him. t
They even played "Rock and Roll Part 2" and had him do a sweet dance to amp up how cool Joker was. At that point I was seriously wondering if they could bring it back down to earth.
Luckily the final act, overall, saved it from being mediocre, and Joaquin Phoenix was good, but he was given a lot of "I'M ACTING" scenes to go with.
Literally all of the complaints can be traced back to the fact that it was directed by Todd Phillips, and written by him and someone with more experience writing drama. Todd Phillips is a Hollywood bro from what I can tell. The scenes that were flat were the ones that needed a kind of subtlety to keep them grounded , but instead of subtlety he decided to have the camera pirouette distractingly around Joker while he danced, or use flashbacks / shoehorned expository dialogue to explain why we should feel something (bros can't do subtlety). The thing that bros can do is BIG powerful moments, and all the scenes where something loud or shocking were the ones which landed best.
I'm surprised to see so many of the people who were saying it was "our movie" actually double down on that, although I can see the appeal of identifying with someone as handsome and charismatic as Joaquin Phoenix.
Not slating it, 6/10 is still far superior to 90% of what is released. I simply want to see if anyone else had a similar reaction, or was there something there that people were connecting with that I didn't.

Powerful Bad Boys

Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« on: October 18, 2019, 08:22:41 am »

Offline MommyBuster69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Resident Small Brain
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2019, 10:38:15 am »
Im a total creep, so it was my favorite movie of the year
6ix9ine is african american

Offline franktjmaxx

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • rad boy
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2019, 07:40:39 pm »
I wish the movie kept up the darkly comic aspect I saw in it during the first half. I think I'm probably seeing my own idea for the movie in it though.

When Arthur gets the sign stolen then beat up in the alley by those kids I thought it was funny in how absurd and unrealistic it was, and I assumed it was being played for laughs in a sort of tongue-in-cheek silly way, with the way he curls up on the ground and gets kicked. Then later when the cartoony comicbook-tier rich boys make fun of him and then beat him up in the same way, I thought the movie had this dark and silly type of comedy I hadn't seen before, but it never returns to this style of comedy and it makes me think Todd Phillips didn't intend it to be that way at all. The only other bit that comes close to this dark-silly style is when he kills the guy who gave him the gun and lets the midget live, but in typical Hangover fashion it beats this joke over your head as if you didn't get it immediately. It goes from serious moment to funny moment like a Marvel movie, where it should have played it seriously.

The movie goes from darkly comic to pretty much just dark towards the end, which is where it should have gone but it did it clumsily. I liked the unsubtlety in the beginning, because it fit in this dark-silly style, but towards the end it bordered on preachy (by then I had given up on the movie being dark-silly and it no longer worked for me)

Some other points:

* I liked how shit the writing was for Franklin's show, particularly when Arthur's standup tape was shown, where it was like "'Well, nobody's laughing now!' 'Uh, you got that right pal!" I saw it as making fun of garbage talkshow host comedy but I'm not sure how intentional that was
* I thought the Rock and Roll Pt. 2 scene where he's dancing on the stairs was genius and fits into the unsubtlely that I liked about the movie, the unsubtlety being that the song is played at pretty much every sporting event in America as a great spectacle of violence. And just the visual itself of him dancing is instantly iconic
* The dancing in general was great, my favorite moment in the movie is when he gets his stuff after being fired and it's super dense silly comedy, where he honks the horn, "forgets to clock out", changes the "don't forget to smile" sign to "don't smile" then kicks the door open like a goon after dancing down the stairs
* Deniro was pretty bad in this movie to the point where it took me out of it, like I said it was funny in the beginning then when it comes time for Arthur to be on the show the whole situation was too absurd for me
* Joaquin put in an insane performance, I liked the general feel of the movie with how gross it was and how it felt like you were looking into a messed up dollhouse, and Gudnadottir's score was perfect for it as well

Going in knowing how Todd Phillips was inspired by King of Comedy and Taxi Driver, I was expecting it to be half clumsy retread and half interesting take on fame/attention with a focus on senseless violence wrapped up in a comic book movie, and that's pretty much what I got. One thing that made King of Comedy so great is its focus on justifying yourself to your former classmates, to prove them wrong for teasing you, etc, whereas Joker focuses more on abandonment from society and childhood trauma and less on the effects of being low status in the social ladder. I think if the movie was really trying to look into the mind of a school shooter or an Elliot Rodger-type, the likes of whom the media said would be emboldened by the movie, it would have leaned heavily into that aspect of King of Comedy, which it did not. Instead it focused mainly on "mental health", a magic word people like to invoke when they don't want to deal with the fact that society at large is broken, of which more therapy and social programs are just bandaids.

Which is interesting because the movie spends most of its time blaming Society for its issues. I get the impression that it's not just Arthur the character but the movie as a whole that says this. It seems at odds with the rest of the movie for them to blame it on lack of social program funding. This is where the movie's in-your-face unsubtlety comes to a head in an interesting way. It undoubtedly agrees that defunding social programs is an issue, because Arthur no longer gets his meds, setting the stage for him to go fully off the rails. But it also undoubtedly agrees that "it's getting crazier out there" with its senseless violence and poor vs rich rioting (which I haven't touched on at all but was also clumsily fit in). So I guess the ultimate message of the movie is really, "wat can u do?" But it comes around to this so clumsily it leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I'm not demanding answers, in fact the best films tend to ask questions without giving you any, but Joker doesn't seem to be asking questions so much as it's throwing its hands up in the air and shouting. And there is some value in that.

Offline franktjmaxx

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • rad boy
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2019, 07:54:23 pm »
I'm in the minority when it comes to liking the first half more than the second

Offline Mind Jelqer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • bad boy
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2019, 02:02:53 am »
The whole brain damage aspect of his character really stuck with me since I've dealt with serious depression and a head injury. Movie had this dude aimlessly driving around the city at 2am wondering if he was still a person at all.

The kids singing before beating him up was charming for some reason and I really enjoyed it lol. I really wanted them to just keep singing and have the scene turn into a musical.

Offline PunchingArianaGrande

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • bad baby
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2019, 11:11:45 am »
I wish the movie kept up the darkly comic aspect I saw in it during the first half. I think I'm probably seeing my own idea for the movie in it though.

You probably are, the movie was playing so much of it straight that there's no way Joker getting beaten up was for laughs. That subway scene was so OTT, in hindsight I can see it being funny, but for me the whole movie would have to have been funny in the same way for it to land like that. I think Todd was just making it VERY CLEAR that they were mean men.
I thought De Niro was just there to play a caricature so I never read much into his performance, for me he was just playing a boomer talk show host asshole.
Yah I agree in not thinking that the movie was trying to "make a point"
The whole brain damage aspect of his character really stuck with me since I've dealt with serious depression and a head injury. Movie had this dude aimlessly driving around the city at 2am wondering if he was still a person at all.
I was thinking after that maybe if I had more experience with legit brain damage and head injuries, a lot of the stuff that didn't move me might have done.
Im a total creep, so it was my favorite movie of the year
Tbf it's probably my movie of the year as well, but only because I haven't seen any other new releases of note

Offline MommyBuster69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Resident Small Brain
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2019, 05:14:58 pm »
Zombieland 2. It's a comedy that is actually funny
6ix9ine is african american

Offline franktjmaxx

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • rad boy
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2019, 05:50:09 pm »
Tbf it's probably my movie of the year as well, but only because I haven't seen any other new releases of note

favorite movie of the year for me is Parasite by Bong Joon-ho, it's pirateable

certified bad boy

Offline PunchingArianaGrande

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • bad baby
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2019, 05:46:47 pm »
Tbf it's probably my movie of the year as well, but only because I haven't seen any other new releases of note

favorite movie of the year for me is Parasite by Bong Joon-ho, it's pirateable

certified bad boy

Heard good things about that when it came out, will probably RENT it soon

Offline Lucid

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 02:05:57 am »
I wish it would've been more than it was, but I appreciate what was there. I guess coming from someone who's favorite movie of all time is Taxi Driver I'm just glad to see someone attempting to recapture that same feeling for a modern audience and break through all the bullshit CGI infested blockbusters even if it didn't land perfectly. It is was a lot more heavy handed than taxi driver was and I think the fact that it was tied to a superhero franchise was a necessary evil in the modern film market but definitely hindered the film. Joaquin Pheonix was stellar as Arthur Fleck though, his portrayal of pathological laughter was incredible. But his actual character and situation is just less compelling and emotionally complex than that of Travis Buckle. It definitely has a message and the performance had a lasting impact and I think it rises above the average super hero movie but his struggle was a bit surface level. Also the score was really great for the movie, as a violinist and a lover of string instruments I loved the incorporation of harmonics into the soundtrack.

Personally if I had to pick a movie of the year it would probably be between Midsommar and Joker, for the sole fact that everything else is capeshit garbage and CGI shitfests pandering to international audiences with zero substance.

Offline MommyBuster69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Resident Small Brain
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2019, 05:21:23 pm »
Joker used a lot of CG for the big 70s cityscapes
6ix9ine is african american

Offline Lucid

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2019, 01:02:39 am »
Joker used a lot of CG for the big 70s cityscapes

At least the movie wasn't completely based around CG to the point where it became obnoxious, I think background CG that establishes the world and blends in with the backdrop is the best way to use it. Marvel movies and blockbusters are just so CG infested that nothing seems real, nothing has any weight and it's just pretty colors on a silver screen for Chinese audiences.

Offline MommyBuster69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Resident Small Brain
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2019, 10:07:38 pm »
By the way punchy. What movies have you seen this year? I'd say we had a pretty good year. You got stuff like midsommar and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to name a few good movies.
6ix9ine is african american

Offline PunchingArianaGrande

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • bad baby
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2019, 06:48:29 am »
By the way punchy. What movies have you seen this year? I'd say we had a pretty good year. You got stuff like midsommar and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood to name a few good movies.

That reminds me I actually saw once upon a time in Hollywood. Thought it was pretty good, but apparently not memorable. Also saw the Elton John movie purely for something to do, which was serviceable. And then Joker. I wasn't pushed enough to see midsommar in theatres, just because I didn't like the concept of a millennial hipster twist on Wicker Man, which I really like. I'll probably see it at home & like it though. There are others I definitely want to see like the Lighthouse, but where I live, you'd have to drive 90 minutes just to get to a theatre showing non-blockbusters, and I don't have a licence or a car

Offline MommyBuster69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Resident Small Brain
    • View Profile
Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2019, 07:27:43 pm »
That's a very shallow interpretation of midsommar
6ix9ine is african american

Powerful Bad Boys

Re: Joker thoughts & Joker thread
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2019, 07:27:43 pm »

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal